Syfy interview with "Batman & Bill" directors

I only recently came across a snappy 2019 interview with Batman & Bill directors Don Argott and Sheena M. Joyce on Syfy (the brand formerly known as the Sci-Fi Channel) about the documentary. 

Commentary:

Like a justice-seeking hero from the comics he adores, Nobleman chased the real story like it was a 60 Minutes exposé in hopes of restoring Finger’s legacy, in of all things a children’s book…

Imagine that! A children’s book that requires hard work and aims big! (But I get where this perspective is coming from. All authors of books for young readers do.)

Syfy: When did you guys first meet Marc Tyler Nobleman, and determine his Bill Finger quest would make a great doc?

Sheena M. Joyce: We met after a screening at the New York Film Festival, and we hit it off.

They respectfully left out how Don discreetly alerted me that my fly was down. I was practically a parody of making a totally avoidable bad first impression. 

Sheena: …Marc was trying to get Athena [Bill's granddaughter] to mount this lawsuit [against DC Entertainment]

This is not quite accurate. From the first time Athena and I talked, I encouraged her to pursue justice for her grandfather’s legacy, but was not specifically advocating for a lawsuit, which can, of course, take years and cost lots (both financially and emotionally). If she ultimately chose to take legal action, I would have supported it. But I preferred a less contentious approach—namely negotiation—if possible, and am confident I was not alone in this feeling.

Sheena: We were there when Marc first met Athena…

As I’ve noted before, Athena and I first met in person on March 18, 2007, in Florida, a year before any talk of a documentary and three years before I had a book contract. I next saw her two years to the month later, in New York. Six months after that, I met Don and Sheena, also in New York. The scene in the film of me going to Athena’s house was in 2011, which was, I believe, the first time I’d seen her since 2009. 

Once a nonfiction writer who meticulously doublechecks and documents sources, always a nonfiction writer who meticulously doublechecks and documents sources!

"Batman & Bill" panel at Television Critics Association Winter Press Tour

In 1997, I moved to Los Angeles to try to sell three screenplays I'd written. In late 1999, I moved back east with three unsold screenplays.

File it under "bizarre" that I most recently came back to LA not because of a film I'd written but rather because of one I appear in. One, in fact, that is about me.

The Hulu feature documentary Batman & Bill tells the story of my nine-year effort (including the 2012 publication of my book Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman) to get Bill Finger's name added to the Batman credit line. The film releases in May.

On 1/7/17, I joined filmmakers Don Argott and Sheena Joyce, Bill's only known grandchild Athena Finger, and Athena's lawyer/sister Alethia Mariotta in Pasadena to participate in a panel at the annual Television Critics Association Winter Press Tour.

I saw actors from Hulu shows I have not seen including Michelle Monaghan, Alexis Bledel, and Aaron Paul.

The banquet room in which the panel was held was capped with blinding light and lined with long tables of journalists who have seen the film; they asked us questions for about 20 minutes. One of the journalists said I am even more obsessive than I admit. Then we mingled at a cocktail party.

A highlight: a Hulu exec told me his favorite part of the film is how the audience learns the last of the big twists of the story via my then-11-year-old daughter.

Overall, this new experience was lovely if whirlwind. It remains a tremendous honor to have a role in this story—Batman's story, Bill's story.

Glimpses:

This wasn't a premiere but before I left, my wife made me a red carpet anyway.

The night before our TCA panel, I hung out with one of my best friends from college, Justin. We have a tradition of hunting for late-night donut shops and this time, the only one we found open was a place serving gourmet donuts and appropriately called Donut Friend.

Apparently all networks/companies participating in TCA get a day to themselves to present their upcoming offerings. Naturally each begins setting up the night before; here is a room where Hulu put out spreads of snacks.

Another room sported Hulu pillows. Here they are prior to distribution.

Don and Sheena chatting with a journalist.

My badge, perhaps implying it takes talent to be yourself.

The meat of the day was a blur and therefore I didn't take photos. Here is one from another source. And two courtesy of Hulu:

 I am not wearing a cummerbund made of flowers; 

those are on the table in front of us.

Here is the room where the cocktail party was held (and the pillows were arranged on various couches)…less than an hour after it ended. They break down these things so fast.

Among the coverage that posted same-day:

• USA Today
• Deadline
• The Wrap
• Philly.com

Thank you again to Perry Seaman, Melinda Casey, Rob Gati, and the rest of the Hulu team for making this happen.

6:15 a.m. the morning after

"Batman & Bill" documentary sneak preview at New York Comic Con 2016

On 9/18/15, mere hours after DC Comics announced that the company would officially add Bill Finger's name to the Batman credit line, I updated Don Argott and Sheena Joyce, the filmmakers with whom I'd started a Bill Finger documentary four years earlier.

On New Year's Eve, Don and Sheena confirmed solid interest for us to pick up where we left off…with Hulu.

From February to July 2016, we did just that.

Just over a year after that historic credit announcement, on 10/6/16, opening day of New York Comic Con, "the largest pop culture event on the East Coast," Hulu gave attendees and press a sneak peek of Batman & Bill followed by a panel with Don, Sheena, Bill's granddaughter Athena Finger, his great-grandson Benjamin, Finger legal counsel Alethia Bess Mariotta, Batman movie producer Michael Uslan, and myself, skillfully moderated by Rich Sands, executive editor of TV Guide.

This Batman project moved at Flash speed, at least by filmmaking standards.

Our NYCC day started with hair and makeup. Here is me either just before or just after…can you tell which?

I feel what's left of my hair is beyond repair so we didn't even try, but I was a good candidate for foundation, as I believe it's called. That is the After photo.

We took a Batvan from the hotel to the show, passing a league of Hulu-hired Batmen who were not solving mysteries but setting one up.

 front row: Benjamin, Alethia, Athena

second row: Sheena, Don

photo courtesy of Shiva Kalipersad

Outside the con, Athena had a quick team-up with a young attendee emblazoned with an apt emblem.

We were led from the car through the bowels of the Javits Center—women in heels on wheels, men on foot.

The green room was Batcave black.

The panel assembled.

The 30-minute sneak preview in progress.

The room held 800—and while one side section wasn't full, it was a great turnout. The panel ended too quickly.

 photo courtesy of Julian Voloj

photo courtesy of Benjamin Cruz

The reaction in the room and later in the press was humbling.

The Wall Street Journal covered it.

Newsarama live-blogged it.

Bleeding Cool offered one of the most moving comments: "I know it was only the first day, but on Thursday I'm pretty sure I witnessed the most heroic thing to happen at NYCC 2016."

Thank you to Hulu for supporting the film and organizing the event, Perry Seaman and his team at Hulu for being so enthusiastic and accommodating, Don and Sheena for making a film that has exceeded high expectations, the Finger family for embracing this legacy with gusto, NYCC for giving us the real estate, Michael Uslan for his ongoing advocacy for Bill Finger, Rich Sands for moderating, and Batfans for showing up…plus for being my collective sidekick on this nine-year push for justice.

What I learned while making a documentary

In 2015, DC Comics began officially crediting Bill Finger as the co-creator of Batman. It was a story 76 years in the unmaking.

And a documentary five years in the making.

In 2011, a production company and I had begun working on what is now called Batman and Bill, a documentary about my efforts to get Bill Finger that credit. We did marathon interview sessions in 2011 and 2016; in 2016, that consisted of interviews for three days, five to seven hours per day (and the first two of those days started two days after I got back from a month-long trip to Asia).

In the process, I learned a lot about filmmaking and storytelling in general, largely from co-directors Don Argott and Sheena Joyce.

technique:

• If interviewing someone near a fridge, you might have to unplug it so the camera doesn't pick up its hum. To ensure you don't forget to plug it back in before you leave, put your car keys in it. Similarly, the third and final 2016 interview session was on a particularly hot July day, and because the air conditioning blows audibly, we had to shut it off.
• Strive for variety: don't film too many interviews/scenes in the same room; shoot some scenes from multiple angles; if interviewing one person in different scenarios but on the same day, have the person change clothes sometimes.

• Record room tone—the sound of a space when no one is talking. Apparently, not all relative silence is the same and filmmakers need to have those different room tones on hand to lay down at certain moments.
• When filming a still image (i.e. a book cover), linger on it longer than may seem necessary.
• When a person sits next to the camera to interview someone who is on camera, no one should stand next to the interviewer so as not to divert the gaze of the interviewee.
• At times, Don would film me in my office with the main lights off. Even though he sometimes turned on small spotlights and sometimes natural light was present, it still seemed too dark to me, but it doesn't appear that way on film.

narrative:

• Documentaries tend to be more engaging when they are following a story that has a current component and can be resolved on film (as opposed to telling a story completely in the past where the resolution is already documented somewhere).
• The on-screen text that identifies the name/title of a character or other information is called a "lower third." There is no standard on how often to re-identify people who speak multiple times throughout a documentary. If someone first appears at the beginning and then not again for 30 minutes or more, it is probably better to re-identify them. It can get tricky if the film has many talking heads. If you re-identify too little, it may confuse the viewer. If you re-identify too much, it may distract the viewer.

It's been an honor to work with Don and Sheena and their team, which included Demian Fenton and Alexandra Orton. They are all so good at what they do. They believed in Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman even before the book came out. I am very protective of my little slice of Bill's story and found myself trusting this crew quickly and for the duration. In doing their own original research and putting in the time to develop a deep grasp of the intricacies of the story, they leaped over my expectations. And no detail was insignificant.

I will be praising them more in the future.

I've watched various docs and mini-docs on superheroes and Batman in particular:

• "Legends of the Dark Knight: The History of Batman" (2005)
• "Batman and Me: The Bob Kane Story" (sometimes referred to as "Batman and Me: A Devotion to Destiny, The Bob Kane Story"; an extra on the 2008 DVD Batman: Gotham Knight)
• Secret Origin: The Story of DC Comics (2010)

Of course Bill was not given proper weight in any of them.

We had to make up for decades of neglect.

titles I proposed for our film:

• The Batman Betrayal
• Batman's Biggest Secret
• Man and Batman
• The Uncaped Crusader
• Batman's Fingerprints
• Batman Man
• The Batmaniac
• Finger Writing
• Finger Pointing
• Finger at Bat
• Batman and Nobleman
• Fighting for Bill Finger
• Batman and Robbin' (kidding)
• Giving Kane the Finger (even more kidding)

title the filmmakers proposed that I really liked:

• Batman Created By

Both the book and the film were long, uncertain processes. I embarked on both with no guarantee that either would see the light of day (or the dark of a cinema): I wrote the book on spec (not under contract) and we started the film in 2011 before we knew if Bill would get credit. For a spell, no credit = no movie.

At one point, someone observed that a documentary with any penguins in it is more likely to be a hit, the most notable example being March of the Penguins (2005). Well, ours has a penguin. To be precise, a Penguin.

In closing:

I agree: no one wants a dumbass documentary. How would you feel about a kickass documentary?

Bill Finger: The Secret Documentary on the Secret Co-Creator! *

* not the official title

As regular readers of this blog know by now, when it comes to Bill Finger, nothing comes easy.

The following news has been eight years in the revealing, the story 76 years in the unmaking.

In 2008, two years before I sold a spec manuscript called Bill the Boy Wonder: The Secret Co-Creator of Batman, a documentary about my efforts to honor Bill began shooting. This was with the now-defunct new media division of Time (as in the magazine).

In 2009, this attempt was scrapped for legal reasons.

In 2011, I revived the project with different filmmakers and a different corporate partner—A&E Indie Films.

In 2011, this attempt was scrapped, and again for legal reasons—but different legal reasons than the last time. (You'll have to wait for that story.)

After the 9/18/15 credit announcement, we resumed filming, now with Hulu—and this time's for keeps.

 TV Guide broke the news.
 

 Under Hulu, filming kicked off in February and wrapped in July.

Bill lived most of his life in New York and never flew on a plane. Counting both the 2011 and 2016 iterations, the first film about him was shot in nine states:

• with me: Florida, California, New York, Maryland, Virginia
• sans me: Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, South Carolina

Glimpses of filming:

 in my office

 

 Note the name in magnets.
 

 Interviewing Joel Pollack, the gracious owner of my comic shop,
Big Planet Comics.

 

My wardrobe changes in one day.

(The daily record was, I think, five.)
 

  Batman producer Michael Uslan 

being interviewed in his limo en route
to the 3/20/16 NYC premiere of

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice.

 

The Alamo Drafthouse in Winchester, VA (1.5 hours from me),

where I watched the film on preview night,

Thursday 3/24/16.

Soon as I entered the cinema, a stranger halfway

across the lobby pointed to me and said "Like your shirt."

Hard to imagine that happening a decade ago.

(First of all, hard to imagine such a shirt existing a couple of years,

let alone a decade, ago.)

 Before the trailers, the theater ran a innovative
montage of the times Batman's origin has been
depicted in film or animation; the scenes did not
appear one after the other but rather simultaneously. 

 

 Filming with Bill's longtime friend and sometime
writing partner Charles Sinclair (age 92) in Brooklyn.

  Charles inherited this from Bill.

 Cheekily named garage near Poe Park in the Bronx.

More—much more—to come.