"My So-Called Life": an oral history of the 1990s drama

In 1994, I graduated college, then went back to high school. In part because of college.

That fall, ABC debuted the TV drama My So-Called Life. 

It had amassed big buzz, but I paid attention to it for another reason as well. One of its producers, Marshall Herskovitz, was a fellow Brandeis University alum (class of '73).

My senior year of college had been humbling. Many of my friends had their first post-college step (whether job or grad school) set by the time spring sprung, if not earlier. I planned to be a screenwriter. In other words, I was spectacularly unset. But not for lack of trying.

In late September 1993, I had combed the Brandeis alumni directory and written letters to every one of them who had some connection to Hollywood. This included Gary David Goldberg (Family Ties) and David Crane (Friends).

Yes, I took a photo of the letters. No regrets.

Those who answered were candid, which I appreciated—but which didn't inspire confidence. My three favorite (though at the time scary) responses:

• Benjamin S. Feingold '78, then Senior Vice President Corporate Development, Sony Pictures: "Since you are asking for my advice, to get into the entertainment business, I recommend that you obtain a graduate degree in law, business, or film."
• Producer Dale Pollock '73: "I caution you not to move [to Los Angeles] without some prospect of a job. Life can be brutal in Hollywood."
• Writer Harold Livingston '55: "Write. Scripts, outlines, proposals. That's how I did it, and that's how everyone I know did it. It's the only way to do it."

I did not receive a reply from Herskovitz. But that did not deter me from watching all 19 episodes of My So-Called Life (the old-fashioned way: as it aired, once a week). 

I felt it lived up to the hype. Its greatest strength (and a factor that distinguished it from other teen shows at the time): restraint. The creators trusted that a character saying nothing says a lot. It coursed with verisimilitude. Who knew that watching people act "real" could be escapist?

Despite being a critical darling, the show lasted only that one season, then went on to develop a cult following, in part because MTV reaired it.

Fifteen years later, I was still not a screenwriter. But I was a writer. Herskovitz accepted my Facebook friend request, accompanied by a sweet note.

Ten years after that, during the peak lockdown period of the COVID-19 pandemic, I revisited the show for the first time since it was originally broadcast. This time I watched with my daughter, who was the same age as the show's main characters. 

Nothing so-called about it: everything but the fashion holds up. (On a side note, it's so refreshing to go back to when shows couldn't use—and overuse—cell phone calls to transition from one scene to the next.)

The show's stars have spoken of their MSCL experience (including here and here). For an oral history from a different perspective, I found and interviewed the show's most notable recurring teen characters: 

• Adam Biesk—Corey (2 episodes)
• Johnny Green—Kyle (6 episodes)
• Karen Malina White—Abyssinia (2 episodes)
• Senta Moses (now Senta Moses Mikan)—Delia (3 episodes)

Adam

Johnny

Karen

Senta

Thank you again to this fab four for looking back on your Life.

What were you doing professionally prior to My So-Called Life?

Adam: After high school I competed in freestyle skiing in Winter Park, Colorado. I did a Mountain Dew commercial while skiing and then studied theater at the University of Colorado, Boulder.
Johnny: I’d been working as an actor since I was four. I was in Back to the Future. It was a big deal when the call came in for MSCL. The guys that did the movie Glory were involved—Academy-Award-winning producers. I made a special effort to apply myself for that part. I asked my mom to drive me to the audition like the old days, so I could study in the car.
Karen: Made my debut with the classic film Lean On Me and booked the coveted role of Charmaine Tyesha Brown on The Cosby Show and its spin-off A Different World. Moved from NYC to Los Angeles in 1992 and booked recurring roles on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air and Getting By. Finally booking another dramatic series was gratifying. 
Senta: I did a bunch of TV shows, commercials, plays, and films. I’ve been in the business since I was 6 months old, so there was a bunch of work before and after MSCL, but none quite compare!

How old were you when you were cast?

Adam: Late twenties.
Johnny: Twenty-two.
Senta: I believe I was 20. At the time I was attending USC with a major in theater.

How did you get the role?

Adam: I was auditioning a lot those days.
Johnny: I knew I had the job during the audition when Winnie turned to Jeff Greenberg (the casting director) and nodded. I didn’t know it was going to be a recurring role. I don’t even know if they knew. 
Karen: Auditioned for it. I wasn’t familiar with the show when I auditioned.
Senta: I auditioned for Jeff Greenberg, then received a callback for the role. If memory serves me correctly, Winnie Holzman, Todd Holland, Jeff Greenberg, and Jason Katims were in the room for the producer’s session. I was cast from that session.

Any funny anecdotes about your MSCL experience?

Senta: During production on [the episode] “Life of Brian,” Winnie asked me how I was enjoying my time on the show. I revealed to her that I had a crush on Wilson Cruz (how could you not?) and a few weeks later it was written into an episode. Winnie was wonderful about asking questions and whenever possible pulled from real-life experiences and feelings.

Is there one story about your MSCL time you tell more than any other?

Johnny: I don’t know if I could tell it to you. (laughs) 
Senta: The above one because I feel like it really shows the lengths the writers went to in order to put real life in their beautiful scripts! I’m sure many of the actors had a similar experience to mine.

Johnny, of course I have to push a little. Does that mean romance?

Johnny: Yeah, romance and egos. [he politely declined to elaborate]

While working on it, did it seem like just another series to you, or did it feel like something special?

Adam: It really just felt like another series at the time. But there was kind of a buzz going on about the show because the writers and producers had just come from another hit show.  
Johnny: You felt the vibe of people involved. I don’t want to say it was timeless, but you knew it was special. I was a young kid, but I’d been around the business. It wasn’t a mainstream show but on at a mainstream time. I had no idea it was going to turn into a cult following situation. After, a lot of people around town were very receptive to me because I was on the show. It was an industry favorite. You get a lot of heat. I played Angelina Jolie’s brother in Gia [1998 HBO movie].
Karen: Just another job. Go in, do what I was hired to do. The cast seemed very close but when you are a guest star it’s just a one- or two-day gig. No space for bonding. I liked that it took place in Pittsburgh. I’m from Philadelphia so it was close enough for me!
Senta: It felt like something special in that it felt like a family who deeply cared about one another. I have fond memories of hanging out in the make-up trailer, listening to music, and chatting with everyone. At the time, I didn’t know that it would become such a cult favorite, but I’m sure glad it did.

Do you know if your character was going to continue to appear if the show got a second season?

Adam: I have no idea. And I had no idea then.
Johnny: I don’t. I’d like to think I’d have gotten Sharon pregnant and made it to season 4 (laughs). [Unbeknownst to Johnny, the showrunners did have plans for Sharon to get pregnant.] 
Karen: It was a recurring role so I was hoping that I would return. 
Senta: She was, Winnie told me so. I believe Delia was going to forgive Brian and date him, which of course would complicate Angela’s feelings for him, creating a bit of a love triangle. I would have loved to explore more stories with Delia, but it wasn’t meant to be.

Karen, the show was groundbreaking in multiple ways, which makes it all the more surprising that you were its only Black supporting actor who appeared more than once. How did you feel about that at the time? Do you know if the producers planned on increasing the diversity on the show?

Karen: It appeared that they made a conscious effort to be diverse. Wilson Cruz was a cast member but no African Americans. And I think it was a very conscious decision for Abyssinia to be a very intelligent girl who pretended not to be for the sake of a guy she liked. It was a very progressive show through the lens of a young female discovering herself and her voice. 

Adam, it was left ambiguous (at least to me) whether or not your character was indeed gay. Do you know?

Adam: It was never established or talked about.

What was your impression of Claire Danes? Did it change over time in any way?

Adam: I remember her being very talented, young, and a bit overwhelmed at the attention and pressure put on her. I believe she was balancing the show with school.
Johnny: She was a talented girl, a great actress. It’s obvious they were grooming her to be a big star. 
Karen: I didn’t really have an impression of Claire Danes at the time. She was the lead and I was a guest star. We said hello. She welcomed me to the show and we did the work. My scenes were one or two of many she had. But now I am a superfan of Homeland and love that I can say our paths crossed. So sad that Homeland ended. Claire Danes is a beast! I love her acting!
Senta: She was lovely. So mature and talented and kind. We hung out a bit off set. Claire, Devon [Odessa], and I even went to the West Hollywood Halloween extravaganza and parade together. Claire will always hold a special place in my heart and I’m so happy for her continued success. So happy!

Same question for Wilson Cruz?

Adam: So cool. Open, generous.
Johnny: Just a wonderful human being. Great actor. A pleasure to work with.
Senta: Ah, my forever dance partner. How could you not love Wilson? He was and is such a dear, sweet person. And so friggin’ talented. I’m inspired daily by his activism and passion.

Devon Gummersall?

Adam: Very nice. Was starting to branch out and get other roles at the time. His father is an artist. We all went to his gallery show in Beverly Hills—where I met my now-wife. 
Johnny: Kind of detached, intellectual. Sweet kid.
Senta: Devon was awesome. Super professional in every way and it was such a blessing to have so many scenes with him. He made the more difficult moments in scenes easier just by being totally present.

A.J. Langer?

Adam: Very friendly. And more serious, like her character.
Johnny: Really talented. She and Claire were the two that were the most responsible for getting the audience involved in the show. 
Senta: I love A.J. She was and is a force of nature. She brought so much to the role of Rayanne and I absolutely loved watching her work through every moment.

Devon Odessa?

Adam: I think I had a bit of a crush on her.
Johnny: Fun to work with. Made it fun to show up for work every day.
Senta: Devon and I were very close during filming. She’s so funny and wonderful and built so many layers into the role of Sharon. I have such fond memories of hanging out with her and our time spent together. It was easy to play friends on the show because we were friends in real life.

Jared Leto?

Adam: Bohemian. Would wear pajama bottoms to the set and play guitar.
Johnny: We some fun messing around with the guitar, exchanging ideas for some riffs.
Senta: I didn’t know Jared that well. We didn’t have any scenes together. But he seemed kind. There was an air of mystery about him for me which I think really played into the whole Jordan Catalano thing.

Adam, how did you meet your wife at that gallery show?

Adam: My wife Sara worked at the gallery at the time. We were all kind of hanging out. Devon, his father (the artist) Greg Gummersall. A.J. and Wilson may have stopped in, too.

Senta, did you realize at the time that the scene with Rickie coming out (the 19th and final episode) was historic?

Senta: At the time, I knew it was important, but given my youth, I don’t think I realized just how important. Elodie Keene (our director) and the producers took an incredible amount of time and care with that specific moment, to be sure it was perfect. I believe we shot that moment about 15 times.

Senta, since it was rare in 1994 for such a revelation on TV (especially among teens), and since he first said he was gay not to a series regular but to your character, how did you feel about being a part of it? 

Senta: Winnie and the other producers never treated me as just a guest star. We were a family. If I had to guess, rather than being sure that moment was between two series regulars, they crafted that moment organically based on the stories and the characters. And I think it was easier for Rickie to come out to Delia, as opposed to one of his closer friends. I don’t truly know why they put me in that moment, but I’m so glad that they did. It was a part of television history and I feel blessed to have been there.

Do you remember how Wilson felt about the scene? Do you know if he realized at the time how groundbreaking it was? 

Senta: I don’t feel comfortable speaking for Wilson or speculating how he was feeling.

Did you and any of the other young actors hang out off set?

Adam: No. But I do remember running in to A.J. and Wilson a few times, maybe at
bars or parties.
Senta: Yep! I spent the most time with Claire and Devon Odessa.

Were you recognized on the street? Any funny stories about that?

Adam: To this day I still get recognized. Maybe once a year. At a restaurant or something. Recently a woman who worked at IKEA jumped up and down and said “You’re Corey! You’re Corey!”
Johnny: I’m sure I was. I don’t remember offhand. I had a girlfriend at the time who was hearing about it from her friends at school. I didn’t start to get really recognized for it till it was on MTV.
Senta: To this day, of all the things I’ve worked on, I’m most often recognized from my work on MSCL. My first memory is from a trip to Disneyland. I was there with a few friends from college and a bunch of young girls came up to me, excited to talk about the show and how it related to their lives. It was awesome and I’m so grateful that the show had that kind of impact.

Senta and friends

When was the last time you were recognized?

Johnny: Good question. It’s been a while. I haven’t really aged well. I’m just kidding. I think I was at a grocery store years ago and someone asked me if I was [the actor] Jonathan Schaech. 
Karen: I [went] in for an audition a few years ago and the casting director spent the first 10 minutes talking about me being on MSCL and how much she loved that show and still watches it. It’s such a cult favorite and I had no idea! I think she called me into to just meet “Abyssinia.”
Senta: Considering we’ve been in quarantine for almost four months [interview conducted in June 2020], probably earlier this year at the eye doctor. One of the nurses was a fan of the show and told my mom that I still looked the same. Ha! I’ll take that as a compliment and run with it.

How did you feel when the show was cancelled?

Adam: Disappointed because of course I was hoping to stay with the show. But my character was only recurring and that usually lasts for only a few episodes.
Johnny: I’m sure I wasn’t happy but at the same time it didn’t faze me really because that’s the business. It wasn’t a big surprise. 
Senta: Devastated, but we had a feeling that it was coming. The initial airing on ABC didn’t receive huge ratings. It wasn’t until MSCL started replaying on MTV that people found it.

Was there a wrap party at the end of the series, and if so, what was that like?

Johnny: If I recall correctly it was at a roller skating rink. We had cake. I wasn’t a big social butterfly back then. I was still a young guy dealing with large amounts of testosterone in my system. 
Senta: There was! It was a huge party at a restaurant/club. I remember a lot of dancing and hugs and tears and everything that you would expect from the people on that show. It’s never easy to say goodbye to your TV family.

Devon Gummersall and Senta Moses

at the wrap party

What was your favorite acting gig?

Johnny: Playing a patient with terminal brain cancer on Touched By an Angel. I felt as an actor it was a great opportunity for me. As far as fun, I had a great time doing a movie-of-the-week called The Face on the Milk Carton, with Kellie Martin. We filmed in North Carolina for three weeks. 
Karen: The next one!
Senta: That’s such a hard question because I try to find something wonderful about each job that I do. That being said, there were highlights, but they mostly had to do with the people I worked with. MSCL, of course, Faking It for MTV, Greek for ABC Family, Home Alone… God, I’m a very lucky girl and I could go on and on.

What are you doing these days?

Adam: I have a private art advisory business where I build contemporary art collections for private individuals.
Johnny: I’m a father now so my number one acting role is that of daddy. That’s my focus. I’m working on some science fiction stuff on the writing side. Science fiction is my love. I’ve got a screenplay that I’m finishing up that’s a special piece for me. Time travel stuff. It’s kind of like fan fiction based on the BTTF universe. I plan to star in it. I did a movie called Menace with Alison Lohman a while back [2002]. I’ve got an agricultural interest on a tropical island over by Cayman. I’ve got a small six-acre farm there. It’s not my primary revenue source but it’s a passion. I like to spend as much time as possible there. 
Karen: Still acting, thank goodness. Currently recording The Proud Family reboot coming out on Disney+ next year. Grateful to be working during the pandemic.
Senta: I’m still earning my living as an actor in Hollywood. The industry has been on hold for a few months because of the coronavirus, so I’m hoping I’ll be back on set before year’s end! The last thing I did was Little Fires Everywhere for Hulu, which was a blast.

Adam

Johnny

Karen

Senta

Adam, what made you leave acting?

Adam: I found another creative outlet that became more satisfying to me.

Do you miss acting? Ever consider getting back into it?

Adam: A lot of being a no-name actor was auditioning all the time and at the end of the day, you didn’t have much to show for it. I really enjoy my life now. It’s extremely creative and rewarding. Sometimes I miss acting but more in a nostalgic way. I think it would be fun to do something again. Maybe someday. When I grow up.
Johnny: Yes. Sean Connery worked up till his 80th birthday.

Where do you live?

Adam: West Hollywood, California. 
Johnny: I split time my time between Scottsdale and the island. I have an office in Scottsdale, with some partners. I ended up in Arizona through some friends who had some projects going here. 
Karen: Los Angeles, 28 years now.
Senta: I live with my husband and our dog in Los Angeles although I still call Chicago “home” and miss it every day.

Johnny

If you have children, how many and ages?

Adam: I have a 13-year-old daughter and 11-year-old son.
Senta: I don’t have any children.

Adam, have they seen your MSCL episodes, and if so, what did they think?

Adam: They have never seen it. They watch Snapchat and play video games.

How often do you participate in a pop culture-related event (reunion, convention, documentary, etc.)?

Adam: I never have.
Johnny: The BTTF stuff. Once the virus ends we’re going to do something in England and Japan. 
Senta: I’m happy to show up whenever asked. I’m so grateful that I’ve been able to work in this industry for over 40 years and I know that’s because of the fans.

Are you still in touch with anyone from the cast?

Adam: No.
Johnny: No. 
Senta: I still keep in touch with most of the cast through social media. Last year for the 25th anniversary, there was a lot of communication between us, which was fun and made me miss them even more!

When was the last time you saw a member of the cast, and was it on purpose or by chance?

Adam: I can’t remember when.
Johnny: We hung out a bit after the show, mid-90s. Not Claire or Jared, some of the other kids.
Senta: I saw Wilson a few years ago. He was moderating a panel on Faking It at the LGBT Center in Hollywood. Such a fun coincidence and I loved seeing his face after all these years.

When was the last time you watched MSCL? How did you think it held up?

Adam: Probably in 1995.
Johnny: It’s been a while. 
Senta: I watched “Life of Brian” last year before a book interview I did about the show. And I thought it absolutely held up. The writers/producers/directors put truth up on that screen!

Do you have any mementos from the experience such as set photos, a script, or anything from the set?

Karen: I still have my scripts.
Senta: I’m very sentimental, so I saved photos, scripts, and a t-shirt from the show. They’re some of my most cherished possessions. Especially the scripts with all my crazy actor notes on them.

Have you been interviewed before about MSCL?

Adam: No.
Johnny: No.
Senta: Yep, a bunch of times over the years. It’s so cool to think how many people that little one season show reached.

What did you think when you first heard from me?

Adam: I’m always shocked that people still remember the show.
Johnny: It made sense. I know it’s got a big following. 
Senta: I’m always happy when someone reaches out to talk about MSCL. It’s a wonderful walk down memory lane for me.

How do you look back on your MSCL experience?

Johnny: Very blessed to have been a part of it. 
Senta: I look back on my experience with nothing but gratitude. I feel so lucky to have played Delia and to have been a part of a show that really touched people. The cast and crew will always hold a very special place in my heart and I can only hope to see each and every one of them again someday. Hollywood is a very small industry, so that’s always possible.

If the experience changed your life in any way, how?

Senta: I’m just grateful that I could be part of a TV show that brought to light so many struggles and emotions of high school kids. It continues to change my life with every person that interviews or speaks to me about how the show made them feel seen.

Anything you’d like to add?

Senta: Thank you for asking me to speak about the show!

NOTES: 

• I reached Johnny thanks to Adam Gradwell, who runs Scene Stealers, a booking agency for comic cons and events.
• Interviews conducted June to September 2020.

Interview: De’Voreaux Sefas (Argyle in "Die Hard")

Yippee-ki-yay, moviegoer. 

You know the line I’m bastardizing. You know the 1988 film it’s from. You know the new kind of rush audiences got from Die Hard (#20 on Empire’s 2017 list of the 100 greatest movies of all time).

But you probably don’t know the man behind the wheel—De’Voreaux White (now Sefas), the actor who played Argyle, the limo driver/accidental hero and fan-favorite character.

You can fix that. Simply read on…with a vengeance:

What were you doing professionally prior to Die Hard? 

I started acting at the age of 10. To divert my thinking from the pain and PTSD of my mother’s [passing, on Christmas Day that year], my grandparents honored her wishes and got me into show business. My first three [bookings were] The Jeffersons, Little House on the Prairie, andThe Blues Brothers.

How old were you when you were cast in Die Hard? 

Early 20s [born 1965].

How did you get the role?  

Places in the Heart with Danny Glover and Sally Fields, which I was featured in, had received huge accolades for Oscars the year before. My agent pitched me to Joel Silver and Bruce [Willis]. They agreed to take on a meeting and a reading with me. By the time I got home that day, they called and offered me the role.

Did you have any input on shaping your character, or was he already fleshed-out by the writers? 

The director, John McTiernan, suggested that both Bruce and I just have fun with it, so we both basically made up some of the dialogue and let the scenes make artistry of themselves per se.

Any funny anecdotes about your Die Hard experience? 

Being spontaneous and quick-witted, which I learned by starting so young, helped tremendously. The first television show I guest-starred on was The Jeffersons. I will never forget the live audience and the comedic energy that prepared for projects like Die Hard.

Is there one story about your Die Hard time you tell more than any other? 

They were all memorable and a great learning experience. What an honor to work with the late Alan Rickman and Alexander Godunov. At that time, Alexander lived up the street from me in Benedict Canyon.

While working on it, did it seem like just another script to you, or did it feel like something special? 

All we knew is that it was an action movie to propel Bruce. I don’t think anyone had any idea of the miraculous impact it was going to have on the diversity and climactic genre of what cinema is today.

What was your impression of Bruce Willis? Did it change over time in any way? 

We hit right off. He’s a professional and so am I. Sometimes the public does not understand that we are there and hired for a job. At the same time we attempt to have fun at what we do.

Same question with Alan Rickman? 

My filming schedule was spread out over a three-month period and my scenes were not done all at once. I was not on the sets every day. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr. Rickman only a few times. Nice dude and very focused.

How often were you recognized on the street? Any funny stories about that? 

When the film started grossing a lot at the box office, the more people would see it [more than once]. I went with some friends to see [Die Hard] when it opened in Westwood, CA. Before the movie even started, people were turning their heads and saying “Hay! That’s him, the limo driver!” LOL. 

When was the last time you were recognized? 

Last week at Starbucks. Still happens three decades later.

What was your favorite acting gig? 

They all are my favorites. Gained so much experience at such a young age.

What are you doing these days? 

Wise investments and strong relationship with God has permitted me to have my own company in CA. I work in recovery, helping people with alcohol and drug addictions. I am also on the clinical staff [at my facility] and facilitate groups on self esteem there.

Where do you live? 

Newport Beach, CA.

If you have children, how many and ages?  

None yet…LOL.

It looks like your last name is now Sefas, not White. What prompted the change?

I am Ethiopian. My born name is Sefas. [After] my mother passed away, my grandparents (last name White) adopted [me].

Have you participated in any Die Hard-related events or appearances (reunion, convention, documentary, etc.)? 

Sometimes, when my schedule allows it. [I went to the] Die Hard 25th Anniversary at Burbank Studios.

Are you still in touch with anyone from the cast?

I reach out to Joel [Silver] and Bruce from time to time.

When was the last time you saw a member of the cast, and was it on purpose or by chance?

I saw Bruce by chance in L.A. I was driving my Jeep down Fairfax Boulevard and lo and behold, Bruce [drove past me] in his vintage corvette. I honked and chased him a bit. He looked over and we both busted up laughing!

Please tell me you pulled over and took a selfie.

No, I did not take a picture. No reason to. The moment was priceless. LOL.

When was the last time you watched Die Hard? How did you think it held up?

I never watch my own movies. LOL.

Do you have any mementos from the experience such as set photos, a script, or anything from the set?

No. However, I do have wonderful memories.

Do you have clippings from magazine/newspaper interviews/profiles published at the time?

No, that is my management’s department.

What did you think when you first heard from me?

I respect and honor anyone who reaches out to me.

A Brazilian fan.

How do you look back on your Die Hard experience?

It is always an enchanting reminder when anyone mentions [my] character [in] the film to me.

If the experience changed your life in any way, how?

This character allowed me to take my craft seriously.

Anything you’d like to add?

It was an honor and a wonderful experience that I will never forget.

Oral history of the "Whassup!" Budweiser commercials, part 4 of 4

Part 1.

Part 2.

Part 3.

What are you doing these days?

Scott: Still grinding. Going on auditions for commercials, movies, and TV shows, trying to score the next gig. I've come up with a couple of TV show ideas. I'm currently working on a treatment for one of them with a well-known actor/writer/producer who's attached himself to my project. When it's done, we're gonna pitch it to HBO and a few other places. It's kind of exciting!

Fred: I've been producing and directing quite a few stage plays. One entitled 12' x 9' deals with the penitentiary system. I wrote, directed, and starred in this piece winning three NAACP Theatre Awards: Best Director, Best Producer and Best Playwright. I have a few TV movies I directed steaming on Amazon and Netflix. I stay rooted on the production side which has lead me to work on quite a few network shows. In addition, I just completed three feature films scripts for hire, and I'm requested as a panelist and/or guest speaker at colleges and universities.

Paul: I've been working on multiple stories hoping someone will take an interest when done. Also, my family owns rental property that needs to be maintained. So I guess I'm working in the family biz, but it's not that serious. We've been doing this my whole life so it's not like working.

Paul, "stories"—meaning what exactly? Screenplays? Movie treatments? Books? 

Paul: All of that. Being a part of a commercial campaign gave us an inside window [on] what makes a commercial popular. So I started writing commercials. Then I started to spread out. I'm now working on scripts about the campaign, what we experienced, and what created us. I liken my favorite script to something along the lines of Entourage. 

It's actually spooky how the storylines match. But this is real life. I really think I'm sitting on something that could be big. Can't tell you more than that at his point, though.

Where do you live?

Scott: I say New York for professional reasons. But my home is in Philly. (Shhh…don't tell anyone.)
Fred: California.
Paul: Philadelphia.

If you have children, how many and ages?

Scott: Nope. I successfully dodged that bullet. I have close friends who have kids, so I'm perfectly happy being the crazy "uncle."
Fred: We have a 25-year-old and a 12-year-old.
Paul: Max. He's a year-and-a-half-old puppy.

What do they think about the "Whassup!" commercials?

Scott: My non-existent kids? Probably not much.
Fred: They find it hysterical. 

How often do you find yourself saying "Whassup!" (aside from when a fan/stranger asks you to)?

Scott: Not much these days, unless I'm being ironic, or funny.
Fred: LOL. Everyday…unaccountable. 
Paul: Never. Never. LOL. LOL.

Paul, still have those overalls?

Paul: Yes, I do. LOL. That's a question I've been asked repeatedly. To talk about the overalls and not my woolly mane would be remiss. Because they are inextricably connected.

I had, for months, growing my hair long enough so that I could do…something. I didn't know what but I knew I wanted it to be something big. 

Around that time, the Sixers drafted a mercurial guard named Allen Iverson who would become the next rookie of the year. He would also go on to be a transformative person on and off the court. He introduced hip hop and tattoos to professional basketball in a way that perhaps the league predicted but could never have prepared for. It was a sea change.

I was caught up in this. Growing up in the hood, I never thought my baby face could support cornrows. Why? Because I wasn't hood enough. LOL. Bad boys rocked cornrows. I'm not a bad boy. 

But when Babyfaced Iverson did it…I took a chance.

For the first time, cornrows were associated with success and I hoped it would translate to police officers and the public in general. Of course, that didn't happen. See Colin Kaepernick.

The overalls…I love overalls. I have three or four pair. Here's where this connects to our commercial.

You can't wear cornrows all the time. They stress your hair. You have to take them out and let your hair rest for a few days before you tie it up again. I happened to be in a place where I was letting my hair rest when Charles called about the audition.

When I showed up, I had my hair out. And I happened to be wearing a pair of overalls. Around commercial 8 or 9, I asked if I could wear cornrows and not wear overalls. The advertising execs said, "You're the big hair and overalls guy. That's who you are."

How often do the four of you get together? When you do, what do you do?

Scott: The last time all four of us were together was in '08 when we shot the Obama promotional video "Whassup 2008: Change." We're spread out all over the country now, so we see each other every now and then whenever one of us is in the other's town. But we still keep in touch.

Fred: It's rough for everyone to link all together because of distance and schedules, but I usually catch up with everyone individually a few times a year. 
Paul: All of us are never together unless we're working on something together. We catch up with each other individually when we can, but responsibilities and distance prevents most group meetings. When we do it's filled with deep belly laughs, food, and the sharing of stories old and new. When you're childhood friends, you are never too far away from each other in heart and mind.

Do you drink beer? If so, do you drink Bud? If so, do you get a lifetime supply for free?

Scott: That's one of the great ironies. My friends used to tease me "How did you become a celebrity from a beer commercial when you don't even drink?!" I don't drink at all, never have. I'm just a great actor! LOL. There used to be discussion amongst the bud execs about having me walk around at conventions and appearances with a bottle of Bud, taking sips from it every now and then; I told them "Just put Coca-Cola in my bottle and I'll be sipping all day long!"
Fred: I drink beer from time to time. Bud is always on the list. Yeah, they left the free supply out of the contract. LOL. 
Paul: I love beer. I don't mind a cold Bud, but right now I'm big into German Hefeweizens. I have not been offered a lifetime supply but they still know how to get in contact with me!

Scott, did Anheuser-Busch send you to walk the floor at trade shows with Coke in Bud bottles? If so, did they ask you to keep that a secret?

Scott: Okay, here's the weird thing…when I made that suggestion, the Bud exec got this dead serious look on his face and said to me "Oh, no, we could never do that…they would know." I scoffed. "What? Are you serious? How the hell would they know?" Again, deathly serious, he responds "You don't understand. When a baby is born into the Busch family, the first thing they do is dab a little Budweiser on the baby's lips. They grow up knowing all about Budweiser. It's the family heritage. If any of the Busch family members were ever to see it, they would be able to look at that bottle and tell, just from the color and the way it moves, that it wasn't Budweiser." I was speechless. He fervently believed every word of what he just said (or he was pulling the most convincing rib of all time). In the end, they never bothered having us walk around with Bud bottles.

Are you still in touch with Budweiser? Any talk of more "Whassup!" commercials? (Everything else is being rebooted!)

Scott: No contact with Bud on my end. They were acquired a few years ago by a Belgian beer conglomerate [InBev], and all the guys I used to know [there] are gone. I still keep in touch via Facebook with a few of the former execs, mostly Bill Etling, AKA Billy Boy, AKA Boom Boom. He was the PR exec assigned to accompany us on all our national appearances. He was an awesome dude, we loved Bill. 

There was something of a revival recently, when Burger King and Budweiser teamed up to promote the new [American Brewhouse King Sandwich] and they used clips from the old commercial in the new TV ads. But as far as reviving the "Whassup!" campaign with Anheuser-Busch, there's been no talk. We've wanted to approach them with the idea. We'd all love to do a revival. (If you have any contacts there, let me know.)

I do, however, still keep in touch with Vinny Warren, the ad exec whose idea it was to create the commercials. He's now got his own ad agency in Chicago. He's doing well.
Fred: I have not been, but from time to time I do correspond with former Bud reps who were really great people who worked on our campaign. 
Paul: I haven't but it would be fun. I have an idea for a great line a spots for them. 

I don't believe I know anyone at Anheuser-Busch, and while I'm happy to doublecheck, you don't need my help! Between Vinny and your former Anheuser-Busch contacts who may still know people there, wouldn't you simply be able to reach out to whoever is there now? You're company royalty! Don't you think they would take your call?

Scott: No one knows anyone there anymore. Since InBev bought the joint, all of the old execs are gone. (Remember, the spots ended 16 years ago.) I've tried over the years to contact them hoping to pitch them a few ideas on a revival of the campaign—I even had a big-time Hollywood PR person working on it—but no one was able to reach out to them.

What did you think when you first heard from me?

Scott: When I realized who you were, I was very excited! I am a big fan of the Bill Finger documentary, and I loved your interview with the former child actors from Splash, which I randomly stumbled upon one day; I didn't realize both were done by the same person until I got your email! I was flattered you'd want to interview me/us!
Fred: "Wow! This guy wants to do a thorough in-depth interview on our experiences during the run and our lives after." I'm grateful for the consideration. 
Paul: Nothing really. Honestly, I'm still not sure who you are. LOL! The guys asked me to do this so I did it. Are you famous? Wanna be friends?!

Scott, thanks for the kind word about Batman & Bill. Did you discover it because you're a Batman fan, or was it some other way?

Scott: I'm a lifelong comic book nerd/collector. [When] I saw it on the Hulu menu, I watched it immediately.

How do you look back on your "Whassup!" experience?

Scott: With huge amounts of fondness and gratitude. It made me rich and famous, and all I was doing was traveling the country with my real-life buddies, shooting commercials and TV shows, making personal appearances, meeting all kinds of folks, and having a blast! It was a great experience.
Fred: It was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I was part of an iconic pop cultural phenomenon. The fact that the commercial reminded people of how they cherish their own friendships was special to me. I never thought something like this could be so globally influential. 
Paul: Flat-out, the time of my life. I was being paid to hang with my friends with really famous people in really kool places and all we had to do was drink beer and make commercials. [I came] to realize that I dig limos and first class flights. I feel like I toured with a rock band for a few years. Got in places I wasn't supposed to get in, did things I never woulda had a chance to do, traveled to countries I'd never been…

If the experience changed your life in any way, how?

Scott: Like I said earlier; a career that I never would've had was virtually thrown in my lap. Practically overnight, I went from being a nightclub bouncer to being a world-famous celebrity, with all the perks that come along with that. I was able to travel in circles I never would've been allowed in before, I got to meet all kinds of folks I never would've met, I got to go places I never would've gone, [and I got to] do and see things I never would've done or seen. It changed my life completely, in every way imaginable.
Fred: I live by knowing the little good deeds you do and may take for granted and the joys you share can change someone's life for the better. 
Paul: Traveling to other countries, hands down. I found something in myself I didn't know existed. And it drives me to this day. I want to swim in every ocean in the world. I want to make it to as many places as possible and experience a piece of their lives. I want to eat their food, drink their wine, listen to their music, and soak up as much of their culture as I can. Then I want to go to the next place and do it again.

Do you feel the commercials have a legacy?

Scott: Actually, yeah. I think, in a small way, we opened the door to more diversity in mainstream advertising of mainstream products. I see TV commercials now that have an energy, style, and/or characters that are very reminiscent of the "Whassup!" commercials.   Interestingly, I have been told by five or six people over the years that various college and university courses talk about our commercials! Plus we're a Trivial Pursuit question! How cool is that! 

Also, I believe Paul's hairstyle opened the door for a lot of actors/characters to have that hair! LOL. (No, seriously!) But mostly, if people do remember us, I just think we'll be remembered as those funny beer commercials from around 2000 that everybody loved. And I'm perfectly fine with that.
Fred: Most definitely. When I'm sitting at a coffee shop and hear people greet each other with a loud and boisterous "Whassup!" the proof is right there. Budweiser did a lot of charity work so we were able to be involved in the humanitarian aspect of it as well, which lead me to personally supporting various charitable organizations. So I would like to think that those contributions are still paying forward. 
Paul: People say they do. I guess so. I know the spots were special. I mean, look what happened. I think we can all agree that shit wasn't normal for a TV commercial. LOL. I feel proud to be a part of the long legacy of great Anheuser commercials and great American beer commercials in general.

Anything you'd like to add?

Scott: "Remember…wherever you go, there you are."
Fred: I am grateful for Charles and his genius and everyone who participated in the campaign on every level and affiliation. It's a dream come true to say I was part of this with lifelong friends and with people who became lifelong friends. I would do it all again.
Paul: When I really got into [answering these questions], it was fun. I got a lot more to share but it's too much for me to type, so I invite you to call me and record our convo. There's simply too much shit to talk about with all the things that happened to us. Dealing with the paparazzi in London gave me new insight into how crazy they really are. That crazy culture in Bud management. Talking to Wayne Greztsky and Dan Marino at a convention. Did Scott tell you about him and Dale Earnhardt? Too much to talk about…